> Well, I am not Armenian,
I guess that means you're not from Armenia.
Did you mean "Arminian," perhaps? : - )
> Do not Judge,
See www.outsidethecamp.org/rightjudg.htm .
> No doubt, you find it impossible to PROCLAIM
> TO ALL the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
On the contrary - I do proclaim the gospel to all without exception. This gospel -- the true gospel of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Christ alone -- is going out all over the world. Praise God.
> It is obvious you SECOND
> GUESS God in validating all the household of God. Are you concerned
> there might occur some SHORTAGE of the SUPPLY of God's GRACE towards
Hmmm ... let's think about this for a minute. Suppose I wrote an article saying that all Jehovah's Witnesses are unregenerate. Would you say that I am "disrespecting" the JW's? Would you say that I am "second guessing God in validating all the household of God?" Would you ask me if I were "concerned there might occur some shortage of the supply of God's grace towards man"? After all, JW's are just in error about the person of Christ. Who am I to judge JW's to be unregenerate? Think about it.
For anyone who's interested, below are some links to web pages in which unregenerate people ask questions and I respond:
> Ask an Arminian what he means by "atonement" and you will find
> > that he says that his "jesus christ" atoned for the evil deeds of
> > without exception, yet there are some for whom this "jesus" atoned
> who go to
> > hell anyway.
> No actually Arminians do not teach that. At least I have never heard
> it. What I have heard is that the death of Christ makes salvation
> possible for all men, but it only actually cleanses sin when somebody
See the quotes below.
Even if some believed in the "general amnesty" or "makes salvation possible" theory, this is no less damnable. It is no less of a false gospel. If Christ's death only made salvation possible, then it is not the work of Christ alone that makes the difference between salvation and damnation. It is not the work of Christ alone that ensures the salvation of those for whom He died. Instead, it is the effort of the sinner that makes the difference between salvation and damnation. Whatever one believes makes the difference between salvation and damnation is what one boasts in, what one glories in. If one believes that Christ's death made salvation possible, then one does not boast/glory in the cross of Christ; one boasts/glories in self.
> In the false gospel of
> > universal atonement, their "jesus christ" took the place of and
> took on the
> > sins of every single human being without exception.
> CAn you give me the reference where Arminius or Wesley et al ever
> taught such a scheme? Of course you cannot!
The following quotes are a response to both responses by dean198. For more on John Wesley, see www.outsidethecamp.org/wesley.htm.
<<"What! Can the blood of Christ burn in hell? Or can the purchase by the blood of Christ go thither?" I answer, ... If the oracles of God are true, one who was purchased by the blood of Christ may go thither. For he that was sanctified by the blood of Christ was purchased by the blood of Christ. But one who was sanctified by the blood of Christ may nevertheless go to hell; may fall under that fiery indignation which shall for ever devour the adversaries.">> (Wesley, Works, Vol. 10, p. 297)
<<..."the price of the death of Christ was given for all and for every one," ... Let those who reject the former of these opinions consider how they can answer the following scriptures, which declare, that Christ died for all men; that He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world; (1 John ii,2;) that He took away the sin of the world; (John i,29;) that he gave his flesh for the life of the world; (John vi,51;) that Christ died even for that man who might be destroyed with the meat of another person; (Rom. xiv,15;) and that false teachers make merchandize even of those who deny the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction; (2 Peter II,1,3.)>> (Arminius, Works, Vol. 1, p. 316)
Clarke on 1 Tim 2:6:
<<Who gave himself a ransom - ... the word used here, and applied to the death of Christ, signifies that ransom which consists in the exchange of one person for another, or the redemption of life by life; ... As God is the God and father of all, (for there is but one God, 1Ti 2:5), and Jesus Christ the mediator of all, so he gave himself a ransom for all; i.e., for all that God made, consequently for every human soul; unless we could suppose that there are human souls of which God is not the Creator;>>
Clarke on 2 Cor. 5:19:
<<And that this Christ might be adequate to the great work of reconciling the whole human race to God, by making atonement for their sins, God was in him. ... Christ, by his offering upon the cross, made atonement for the sins of the world; and therefore one important branch of the doctrine of this reconciliation was to show that God would not impute or account their trespasses to them, so as to exact the penalty, because this Jesus had died in their stead. ... To redeem you out of this most wretched and accursed state, God; in his endless love, has given his Son for you; who has assumed your nature, and died in your stead.>>
Wesley on John 1:29:
<<who taketh away - Atoneth for; the sin - That is, all the sins: of the world - Of all mankind. Sin and the world are of equal extent.>>
Wesley on 1 John 2:2:
<<And he is the propitiation - The atoning sacrifice by which the wrath of God is appeased. For our sins - Who believe. And not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world - Just as wide as sin extends, the propitiation extends also .>>
Wesley on 2 Peter 2:1:
<<The Lord that bought them - With his own blood. Yet these very men perish everlastingly. Therefore Christ bought even them that perish.>>
These Arminians believed that Jesus died for, purchased, sanctified, propitiated, took away the sin of, bought, made atonement for, gave himself a ransom for, reconciled, and redeemed everyone without exception, including those who are burning in hell. This is damnable. Any who do not recognize it as such do not know what the gospel is.
For any who are interested in knowing the true gospel, please see the series of sermons on the gospel at www.outsidethecamp.org/sermons.htm .
To God alone be the glory,
Marc D. Carpenter
> Jesus died and atoned for all
It is very clear. All universal atonement advocates say that Jesus ATONED for everyone without exception, including those in hell. Atonement means reconciliation -- reconciliation between God and the people for whom Christ died. If Christ died for everyone, then every single person has been reconciled to God. And if every single person has been reconciled to God, then when God sends people to hell, He is a liar.
> God wanted ALL to spend
eternity in His presence, but not all
> will believe.
Oh, your poor, weak, disappointed god! Your god WANTED something, yet what he WANTED didn't come to pass. He is a god of unfulfilled desires. Because there are people in hell for eternity, your god must be eternally disappointed. Poor weakling. I thought this list was about the SOVEREIGNTY of God, not the emasculation of god.
My God, who is the true and living sovereign God of the universe, never has an unfulfilled desire -- for if He did, He wouldn't be God.
"But He is in one mind, and who can turn Him? Yea, His soul desires, and He does it" (Job 23:13).
"But our God is in Heaven; He has done all that He has pleased" (Psalm 115:3).
"For I know that Jehovah is great, and our Lord is above all gods. Every thing which Jehovah was pleased to do, He did, in the heavens and in the earth, and in the seas and all deep places" (Psalm 135:5-6).
"As streams of waters, the king's heart is in the hand of Jehovah; He turns it wherever He desires" (Proverbs 21:1).
"declaring the end from the beginning, and from the past those things which were not done, saying, My counsel shall rise; and, I will do all my desire" (Isaiah 46:10).
All praise and glory and honor to the Almighty Sovereign King of Kings and Lord of Lords, who DOES all that He DESIRES.