John Wesley calls himself an Arminian (I have his set of works at home). John Fletcher, one of the greatest men of God, John Wesley's follower, was certainly an Arminian.>>
By what standard do you judge John Fletcher to be "one of the greatest men of God"?
<<Once I also held a view that unless you are a Calvinist, you shall end up in hell. After all, thought I, those who are not Calvinists, are Arminians and how can they truly believe in Christ as their Lord and Saviour.>>
You obviously have not read much of our web site. You obviously do not know what we believe. We do not believe that "unless you are a Calvinist, you shall end up in hell." I address this very thing in www.outsidethecamp.org/letters44.htm . We are not Calvinists. Thus, if we believed that all non-Calvinists end up in hell, we'd be saying that we will end up in hell. That would be ridiculous, wouldn't it? I think you should read more of our site before making such accusations.
<<Yet after studying the scriptures I've found that TULIP and the whole Calvinism as a matter of fact does not square with the word of God. I am not a Calvinist as such (if you are interested about this controversy, please consult the works of John Fletcher, The checks to antinomianism).
All that aside, after all that controversy, even John Wesley and John Fletcher still had enough Christian charity not to send all Calvinists to hell. Yet you certainly do send all who are Arminians to hell.>>
If a person continues to believe in universal atonement up until he dies, then he will most definitely go to hell, since it shows he does not believe the true gospel of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ alone. Yet I do not say that all living people who are currently Arminians are going to hell, because I don't know if God will regenerate them at some point in their lives. What I know for sure is that if God regenerates them, they will no longer be Arminians, because they will no longer believe in salvation conditioned on the sinner.
<<In the name of Christian charity, would you claim that people such as John Wesley, John Fletcher are in hell right now because they were Arminians?>>
I have no idea if John Wesley or John Fletcher are in hell right now. I do not know if God regenerated them later in their lives. You will never see anything like this on our web site. In fact, you should read www.outsidethecamp.org/fte34.htm . If they remained Arminians until their dying breath, then yes, they are in hell right now. But I do not know this.
<<I have no doubt whatsoever that all the good that they have ever brought forth during their lives and all the glory that they brought to God you and I will never be able to do even if we'd live for many lifetimes!!>>
John Wesley was an evil God-hater. He brought no glory to God. He spit on the glory of God.
<<Shame on those who call these great men of God "blasphemers" and confine them to fires of hell.>>
Once again, I do not confine anyone to the fires of hell. Please get your facts straight before you hurl such accusations. Having said that, John Wesley was most definitely a blasphemer. He was a son of the devil.
<<Let us leave the judgement of these people and their works unto God and strive to enter into the narrow gate ourselves.>>
Now I'm seeing some hypocrisy on your part. You say that we should leave the judgment of these people unto God, yet right at the beginning of your letter, you judged John Fletcher to be "one of the greatest men of God", and you obviously judge Wesley to be a regenerate person. So which is it -- are we to leave the judgment of these people to God, or are we to judge them? You obviously have judged them to be saved. I smell hypocrisy. Please see www.outsidethecamp.org/rightjudg.htm .I also encourage you to read "Gospel Atonement" at www.outsidethecamp.org/gospatone.htm .
<<Sincerely and in great disappointment>>
I'm very happy to disappoint those who consider Wesley and his ilk to be men of God. They were God-haters, they spewed forth doctrines of demons, their father was the Devil, they were bringing forth dead works and fruit unto death. They preached poison. How's that for disappointing?
To God alone be the glory,
Marc D. Carpenter
<<All I can say at the end is you should be very careful as to the judgement you pronounce against others based on whether they
believe in universal atonement or not.
Your comments are quite arrogant at least and in all honesty, you should learn the meaning of "charity".>>
Do you show "charity" toward the Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists by saying that they are regenerate? Or do you JUDGE them lost based on the DOCTRINE they believe?
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